A Christmas Carol - what did you think?!

[wallybee1]

When Michael Gambon met his younger self was cool at first, but wouldn't a paradox happened if they continued talking to each other just like in the same way when 10th Doctor met the 5th Doctor?

I don't get it either :/ thats what i meant when the time part of it was kind of complicated and confusing :/

[jedi2187]

When Michael Gambon met his younger self was cool at first, but wouldn't a paradox happened if they continued talking to each other just like in the same way when 10th Doctor met the 5th Doctor?

I don't get it either :/ thats what i meant when the time part of it was kind of complicated and confusing :/

Or the enforcement of the Blinovitch Limitation Effect (see 1983's Mawdryn Undead for example when the two Brigs meet each other near the end) is apparently completely irrelevant in the new series.

Great story, otherwise. An enjoyable holiday lark, but I could live without the Rory-Amy subplot.

8/10

[Michele]

This is very belated, but I’m going to weigh in with my thoughts on the Blinovitch issue. I really did enjoy the Christmas special and agree that it’s one of the best. I’d give it a 4/5. One of the few points that niggled though was the BLE defying scene. Oh, the moment when the ghost of Christmas future was revealed was great – very powerful and moving. But I was with Trev, shouting (O.K., thinking) “Don’t touch him!” as the two Kazrans hugged – which had the effect of taking me out of the story for a few moments as I mentally sputtered around about canon issues. (I guess I’m still firmly grasping my “I love canon” hat!) It just disappointed me a little that such a great writer couldn’t resolve the story without ignoring a fairly significant canon point. (I appreciate the theory that the two Kazrans were somehow different, but can't help feeling that's something of a stretch...)

This may harken back to a concern I’ve had ever since The Waters of Mars. I liked WofM and felt that it was a very powerful vehicle for David Tennant. It posed an impossible dilemma for the Doctor and it was both scary and hearbreaking to see him take a step too far and become the Time Lord Victorious (or so he thought). Where I found myself really disappointed was that there seemed to be little, if any, consequence to the Doctor’s violating the laws of time. Sure, there was a big consequence for the captain when she shot herself. And the Doctor looked momentarily aghast and chagrined -- but only momentarily! I fully expected that the consequences of his defying the laws of time would lead directly into the reasons for his upcoming death/regeneration. I thought we’d see the final two-parter pick up on that and run with it. Instead, the Doctor seemed pretty unrepentant to me -- ignoring the call from the Ood to gallivant across time and space wasting his remaining time in pursuits like seducing Queen Elizabeth (if his claim is correct). This doesn’t sound like a character that’s learned anything from the WoM experience. [And as a side note, the line about Queen Elizabeth bothers me more than the innuendo about two consenting , married adults in the Christmas episode.]

Fast forward to Matt Smith’s era and the Doctor still seems to be messing with time however it suits him. Maybe not having other Time Lords to rein him in does allow him to play God more frequently. But it’s not a character trend I’m all that keen on.

If I ruled the Doctor Who universe, I suppose I’d make different choices on this point. On the other hand, I once had a mentor who liked to say, “Never let facts spoil a good story.” And the Christmas special was a really good story!

[Rory Pond]

[And as a side note, the line about Queen Elizabeth bothers me more than the innuendo about two consenting , married adults in the Christmas episode.]

Normally I would never stoop to defend RTD's excesses, but in this case I think it's justified.

The line in "The End of Time - Part 1" about Queen Elizabeth pays off the closing scene of "The Shakespeare Code" when she arrives and immediately calls for the Doctor's death, which at that point the Doctor cannot understand. How's that for canon? 

[Michele]

Actually, I was very impressed with the fact that we finally got the scene from the Shakespeare Code paid off. And, being a huge Shakespeare fan, I had been waiting and watching for that all along. (Though I would really have liked to see an actually story involving Queen Elizabeth and the Doctor.) Yes, the Doctor's innuendo would potentially explain the Queen's fury.

However, I still don't have to agree with or like the innuendo.

[BreathingMeat]

Hmm  

While RTD did successfully resolve the Queen Elizabeth joke from The Shakespeare Code, I think the bigger disappointment is that the "Time Lord Victorious" story didn't continue into his regeneration story. Wouldn't it have been considerably more powerful to see the Tenth Doctor really experience the consequences of his arrogance? And to have that lead to his death? We could have seen him grow more prideful, then more desperate, and then realise his mistakes, and then die, and come back as a fresh, new, wiser Doctor. What a waste of an opportunity.

But I guess I've drifted way off topic. A Christmas Carol was the best Christmas episode so far, by a good thick margin IMO.

[lamuella]

I would have much preferred The End Of Time if it had been about the Time Lord Triumphant going slowly crazier and crazier.  Like, travelling through history trying to fix things crazy.  Hell, work the Master into it by having him appear and congratulate the Doctor on realizing how things should be.

I would have loved a story with the Doctor as the enemy, with companions teaming up against him to save the world and him.  Probably not the best send off for Tenant, but think of the spectacle it could have been.

[James (DWP)]

Back on topic please - what might have been but wasn't in The End of Time is a fascinating discussion just waiting to happen over on the Series 1 to 4 boards. http://thedoctorwhopodcast.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0

[lamuella]

sorry for wandering off topic.

Back to A Christmas Carol: I consider it to be a televisual equivalent of something like the Doctor Who Experience.  It'sa mixture between a music box and a rollercoaster ride.  The major thing I picked up in terms of how to receive it was the following:

• Nothing that happens in this is going to have longterm consequences
• This is the intellectual equivalent of a special effects show.  Sit back and watch the plot fireworks

to put this in comic book terms (as I often do), there's a DC christmas special from about 2006 in which Superman is considering becoming Santa Claus, and flying around the earth as fast as he can in order to deliver presents to children.  Batman talks him out of this by telling him that he can't hold himself responsible for everyone.  He's not a god and he can't do everything.  Superman agrees not to, but later looks through the window of a hous to see Batman, dressed as Santa, handing presents out to the kids.  The last page of this is one of my favourite panels in all of comics: namely Superman punching out Santa Claus in front of two shocked children.

Now, it goes without saying that this wouldn't really happen in regular DC comics.  However, this didn't matter to me at all because of how much fun it was.  A Christmas Carol is the same: it's not continuity-heavy, it's a rollercoaster.

[Adam1819]

i thought it was relly good i didnt watch it when it was on the tv iv just watched it on box set

[RickAddlesee]

Hi all, new to the DWP forums

This has, for the past two years, been my fav DoctorWho Christmas special of all time. I loved the Peter Pan feel to The Doctor approaching the young Kazran's bedroom window and being turned away. As well as The Doctor bringing the younger Kaz to meet the older in attempts to change his ways. Thought he climax was not as tear jerking as the end to the 2011 Christmas special (which to me hate various flaws) I feel the 2010 special's over all story and message was brilliantly told. Another note, the camera work and lighting, as well as costumes were brilliant. I'm a filmmaker and obvious analyze these aspects to death.

Loved every second of this episode. Lets hope 2012's Christmas Special can sprinkle a bit of magic to close the end of this year

Rick

[mjsmith1223]

Just watched this for the first time last night.  Enjoyed it.  It was lots of fun even though it had nothing to do with what went on in seasons 5 or 6.  The Ponds could have been left out entirely and no one would have missed them.  The Doctor with the young Karzan is my favorite part.  It had me cracking up several times.

[Rory Pond]

Rick! Welcome to the DWP Forums! I'm sorry it took so long to acknowledge your presence, but better late than never. Right? Rick?

Rick?

*crickets*