Episode 11: THE GOD COMPLEX

[esto4273]

Few Observations:
Yeah the rubix cube was an unusual object to just be there
A strange pointed shot of the Dr biting an apple, when we  know Apples are bad!
Also I couldn't help but notice a lingering shot of the Dr shoes and the clowns shoes. What's more when the illusion stops we see a door linger a moment and it appears it was the Dr's room, because the Do Not Disturb sign falls to the floor.
Also I couldn't help but notice the purple bowtie and the jacket was familiar. Looking back, it looks a lot like the costume of the Flesh Dr.
So could the Dr have traded places here? What do you all think?

[Trev (DWP)]

Few Observations:
Yeah the rubix cube was an unusual object to just be there
A strange pointed shot of the Dr biting an apple, when we  know Apples are bad!
Also I couldn't help but notice a lingering shot of the Dr shoes and the clowns shoes. What's more when the illusion stops we see a door linger a moment and it appears it was the Dr's room, because the Do Not Disturb sign falls to the floor.
Also I couldn't help but notice the purple bowtie and the jacket was familiar. Looking back, it looks a lot like the costume of the Flesh Dr.
So could the Dr have traded places here? What do you all think?

bw ha ha ha!  and you all laughed at me when i sadi the clown was the Doctor... cohosts derided me... people snickering at me as I walked down the street...

I will show you all!  bw ha ha ha ha ah ha ha hahahah a

[Michele]

O.K. So it's taken me a whole week to wrap my head around my opinions and reactions to this episode.

On first viewing, my knee-jerk reaction was actually fairly negative, in contrast to most of our forum members ... and hosts. However, credit where it's due -- I've been reading the well-thought-out and persuasive posts on this thread and you lovely folk have resolved most of my issues for me. (You can bill me later...) I watched the episode again tonight and got much better value out of it.

However there are still some things that don't sit quite right with me. Most notably, I have a hard time believing that Amy could lose her faith in the Doctor over the course of a few lines. Not after she has had such steadfast faith in him over most of her life -- even though he's made her wait on multiple occasions. And, if her faith is that he will save her, he is in fact validating that faith by trying to make her lose it.

I can imagine a different approach that would have worked better for me. So if I were God -- I mean Moffat -- here's how I would have run series 6b. This assumes, of course, that were coming off the stolen baby cliffhanger to 6a, which isn't a plotline I'd have written in Doctor Who in the first place, but we'll let that be for now.

6b would have opened with Night Terrors and The Girl Who Waited, though perhaps in reverse order. Amy and Rory would still have the search for Melody forefront in their minds and this would be the primary motivation for these two episodes. However, they would end up off-course (as usual). If you did TGWW first, then it gives a reason for the Ponds to continue travelling with the Doctor even after a horrific experience that makes Rory state that he doesn't want to travel with the Doctor any more. They have to continue the search for Melody. Then Night Terrors is especially haunting because the Doctor manages to help a little kid and mend a family, all while failing to do the same for his closest friends. This would be followed by LKH and we would get the reveal about Mels and the transition to River.

So, The God Complex would have the Ponds still coming to grips with this. When Amy must lose her faith, the Doctor would confirm for Amy that he can never get baby Melody back for her -- it would alter the time line that produces Mels and the River they have come to know. Her infant will always be doomed to be raised by kidnappers who will turn her into a psycopath -- got to be one of a parents worst nightmares. Not only has the Doctor left young Amy behind twice, and condemned old Amy from TGWW to oblivion, he will forever fail to save her innocent daughter. That is the point at which I believe Amy could lose her faith in the Doctor. And, it would have been a more credible resolution IMO to the abduction of the baby.

Ah well, on to the final eps of the season, which I'm really looking forward to.

[Rory Pond]

At first glance, it does seem somewhat incongruous that Amy could be talked out of her faith in the Doctor. But when you consider that she spent 12 years -- her childhood and adolescence -- waiting for him to return, when he said he'd be back in five minutes, I would think it wouldn't actually be that difficult for her to recall those feelings of abandonment and disappointment. Remember also that she just met a 58-year-old version of herself who had been left waiting 36 years for the Doctor to rescue her, and seeing Old Amy's bitterness and resentment had to have made it easier for Amy to lose her faith in him.

If that doesn't convince you, factor in the theft of her baby and the realization that Melody's rescue has been made impossible by intertwining timelines (River's and the Doctor's) and the presence of Mels in her and Rory's early life. That seems like more than enough reason for her to lose her faith in the Doctor. And still she's sad to see him leave her and Rory behind. Say what you will about her, but Amy isn't one to hold a grudge. Well, not until she hits her mid-fifties. 

[judgefloyd]

late to the party as usual.
 This story had a terrific set up but a rather ordinary and rather silly resolution.  At first all was creepiness and being shut in and I was happily getting ready for Who-does-The-Shining, but then we got to see the goofy monster and that bit about faith came in and, well it sounded like the writer trying to make their mind up about how to resolve it on paper.  The faith bit was silly because they reduce faith to the level of believing any damn thing, which is kind of universal.  You've got to believe that your senses are working reliably to get from one end of a corridor to another.  After the unconvicing Talking Amy Out Of Her Faith In The Doctor scene, didn't she now have a belief that the Doc is an uncaring vain ratbag, hence still attackable?  In any event, I didn't find the monster's need to consume people's faith convincing, nor its desire to die because it had been around for a while.  Sure, we all get tired, but I can just jump off a tall building - this creature looked quite powerful enough for self destruction to me. 
  On the positive side, the bit about everyone having a room was good and David Walliams was fine - I hadn't been looking forward to him. 
 A quick bit of fan-service via a (completely unnecessary) reference to The Horns of Nimon and we're off to meet James Corden again.  I'm an optimist, it could be good. 

the other good bit - does the fan service mean that the Horns of Nimon Appreciation Society is finally making its power felt? 

yours, chanting 'Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimonnnnnnn',

Floyd

[BreathingMeat]

the other good bit - does the fan service mean that the Horns of Nimon Appreciation Society is finally making its power felt? 

We are a powerful lobby.

[Michele]

I've been making my way through the latest DWM and came across a quote I thought you might enjoy. Earlier in this thread we pondered whether TGC showed religious faith in a favorable light or not. Here's this quote from writer Toby Whithouse:

"I wanted one [character] to have a religious faith...so I made Rita a Muslim, in the end. It was very important to me that that character be utterly heroic, because I have no particularly strong feelings about religion myself, but I do feel that people of faith often get a bit of a bashing on television, whether it be Christian, Muslim, Jewish or whatever. Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a character whose faith makes them compassionate, and heroic, and clever?"

[judgefloyd]

Well it's a nice ambition, but he kind of waters it down by going on to equate her religious faith with ordinary beliefs like 'the Doctor is a great guy' (I do know that Amy and the Doctor's relationship is far from ordinary, but the belief that someone else is terrific is pretty mundane compared to religious faith for many believers)

[Edwardian Cricketer]

I liked this one. It was atmospheric and dark and mysterious and all those things that reminded me a little of the Hinchcliffe era of Doctor Who. I thought the creature was beautifully realized. Having something that waited in each room, for each person individually was a positively darkly delicious idea.

The Doctor: ‎[speaking the Minotaur's thoughts aloud] "An ancient creature, drenched in the blood of the innocent... drifting in space through an endless shifting maze... for such a creature, death would be a gift." [to the Minotaur] Then accept it, and sleep well. [the Minotaur growls and the Doctor reiterates in English] "I wasn't talking about myself."

This was fantastic, though we have done the breaking-the-faith idea before with the seventh Doctor and Ace in Curse of Fenric.