Things to dislike about "The End of Time"

[Rory Pond]

I think I see your point; however, Moffat hasn't yet done anything to contradict RTD's stuff. I think it's a matter of professional courtesy. He's undone and redone his own stuff with the crack in time, but not anything of RTD's that I can think of.

Moffat did change one thing for certain. In "Victory of the Daleks," Amy doesn't recognize the Ironsides as Daleks, which is odd considering there was a huge battle between them and the Cybermen at Canary Wharf. If that isn't an RTD "undo," I'm not sure what it is. The important thing is that time can be rewritten, and until the drumbeats are established as a fixed point in time, they're fair game for a retcon.

In fact, he acknowledged my biggest problem with "End of Time" - the Doctor's genocide of his own planet - with the wonderful episode "The Doctor's Wife," in which the Doctor shows his first signs of remorse for what he's done. ("You're looking for forgiveness." "Aren't we all?") Rather than undoing what RTD had done, he simply did something beautiful with it.

Well, Neil Gaiman did the beautiful stuff, but sure.    I don't think the Time War, as annoying as it is to me for ruining the Time Lords forever (or at least the foreseeable future), could be retconned offscreen like Amy's memory of Daleks. My third wish for the 50th would be partial or total restoration of Time Lord grandeur and Gallifrey's existence as an occasional port of call for the Doctor, and I think it's about as likely to happen as my first two wishes. 

BTW, I'm also involved in a community that does fan edits of movies and TV shows (think "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Edit," with most of Jar Jar Binks and Jake Lloyd cut out). If I ever find another job and scrape together some money, maybe I'll buy the Specials set and do a fan edit of "End of Time." There's about half of a good episode hiding in there somewhere - it just needs to be unearthed!

I heartily endorse any effort to improve the Star Wars prequels, as well as "The End of Time." (But you may have your work cut out for you there, Tom!) If I may be allowed an off-topic aside, this would be a good time to recommend RedLetterMedia's incredibly hilarious "Plinkett" reviews of the prequels. They won't be for everybody, as there is a running joke that I am certain some people will find off-putting, but I strongly urge anyone who found the prequels wanting to give these reviews a listen. They are amazingly insightful and viciously funny, and that's a combination I don't see nearly often enough.

[Henry Gordon Jago]

I think I see your point; however, Moffat hasn't yet done anything to contradict RTD's stuff. I think it's a matter of professional courtesy. He's undone and redone his own stuff with the crack in time, but not anything of RTD's that I can think of.

Moffat did change one thing for certain. In "Victory of the Daleks," Amy doesn't recognize the Ironsides as Daleks, which is odd considering there was a huge battle between them and the Cybermen at Canary Wharf. If that isn't an RTD "undo," I'm not sure what it is. The important thing is that time can be rewritten, and until the drumbeats are established as a fixed point in time, they're fair game for a retcon.

The Cyber-King from "The Next Doctor" is specifically mentioned as well as something that should have been remembered by history, but isn't.  I'd say that's officially undone by Moffat.

[Ian]

It could be a reset, but equally I find it evokes the classic series where it was almost a runnning gag that the human race never remembered these things.

Ace: But this is Earth, 1963. Well someone would've noticed, I'd have heard about it!
The Doctor: Do you remember the Zygon gambit with the Loch Ness monster? Or the Yetis in the underground?
Ace: The what?
The Doctor: Your species has the most amazing capacity for self-deception, matched only by its ingenuity when trying to destroy itself.

[the hooded man]

Moffat did change one thing for certain. In "Victory of the Daleks," Amy doesn't recognize the Ironsides as Daleks, which is odd considering there was a huge battle between them and the Cybermen at Canary Wharf. If that isn't an RTD "undo," I'm not sure what it is. The important thing is that time can be rewritten, and until the drumbeats are established as a fixed point in time, they're fair game for a retcon.

Not necessarily an undue, Amy forgetting was a direct result of the cracks in time (in the same way she forgot her family and Rory) when the cracks closed time could well of returned to the "RTD" timeline.  Until it's directly contradicted in the series again, it's unclear (at least to me) if the events of Stolen Earth happened

It could be a reset, but equally I find it evokes the classic series where it was almost a runnning gag that the human race never remembered these things.

Ace: But this is Earth, 1963. Well someone would've noticed, I'd have heard about it!
The Doctor: Do you remember the Zygon gambit with the Loch Ness monster? Or the Yetis in the underground?
Ace: The what?
The Doctor: Your species has the most amazing capacity for self-deception, matched only by its ingenuity when trying to destroy itself.

100% agree with this.

[TomH1138]

Not necessarily an undue, Amy forgetting was a direct result of the cracks in time (in the same way she forgot her family and Rory) when the cracks closed time could well of returned to the "RTD" timeline.  Until it's directly contradicted in the series again, it's unclear (at least to me) if the events of Stolen Earth happened

Sorry, RD, but I'm going to have to side with Hooded Man on this one. Her lack of memory was a sign that something was wrong, and at the end of Season 5, the universe was righted again.

I will heartily agree with your endorsement of the Red Letter Media reviews, though, along with your caveat about the NC-17 language and content. (Basically, keep in mind that the "reviewer" persona himself, whose name is Plinkett, is also intended to be an object of parody.) Even after analyzing those movies for 10 years, he managed to unearth a lot of problems that I had never even thought of!

I've been working on a PG-rated edit of those reviews, but that also has been time-consuming.

[Rory Pond]

Not necessarily an undue, Amy forgetting was a direct result of the cracks in time (in the same way she forgot her family and Rory) when the cracks closed time could well of returned to the "RTD" timeline.  Until it's directly contradicted in the series again, it's unclear (at least to me) if the events of Stolen Earth happened

Sorry, RD, but I'm going to have to side with Hooded Man on this one. Her lack of memory was a sign that something was wrong, and at the end of Season 5, the universe was righted again.

RD? 

Well, I suppose until another human companion from the present fails to recognize a Dalek or a Cyberman, we'll have to agree to disagree on whether Moffat intended to undo any RTD elements or not. I will point out that "time can be rewritten" has been mentioned on numerous occasions in S5 and 6 and not usually in relation to the cracks in time. In any event, I still believe Moffat can use The Master as he sees fit regardless of anything RTD established.

Getting back to "The End of Time," I want to mention one thing about it that I definitely do not dislike. Murray Gold's score is easily the singular element that excels throughout the story. "Vale Decem" is, for my money, one of the crowning achievements in NuWho music and the version performed at the 2010 Proms (along with "This Is Gallifrey") never fails to move me.

[TomH1138]

You were RP, but time has been re-written, so now you're RD. 

[Rory Pond]

You were RP, but time has been re-written, so now you're RD. 

Well, considering my namesake was erased from existence completely, I suppose I got off light. 

[Rory Pond]

With a new series of Doctor Who underway, I naturally went looking for still more DW podcasts to listen to. And that's how I stumbled across this. After listening to it, I realized I'd have to share it with other like-minded folks.

(Briefly considered posting this to the Other Podcasts thread, but the subject of this particular episode and the enthusiam with which the participants embraced it meant it belonged here. Plus, I like to bump this thread every so often because it's one of my favorites. )

[TomH1138]

Ooh, I can't wait to listen to it! Thanks for sharing the link.